« Up From the Comments: Private Jets | Main | New Thanksgiving Rule »



Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

And your attack on those states that DARED to vote against the Obamanation makes you any better than Glenn Beck, How?

Oh, and Tom, I realize that when it comes to attacking conservatives, facts are meaningless to liberals, but you might be interested to know that your quote that started your rant against 22 of the 50 United States was taken out of context from a discussion regarding this story:


and whether the breakup of the US was even possible.

Its going to be an interesting, more divided than ever, next 4 years.

Ah, yes: total avoidance of the substance of the post. What a crafty rejoinder!

What substance? Since Glenn is not calling for states to secede, it would appear that any substance in your post is invalidated.

Or do you mean your rant against 22 states simply because they voted against Obama?

If you consider that to be substance, then like I said, it is going to be an interesting, very divided, next 4 years. Evidently it isn't enough for Obama supporters that their chosen one was elected, now you evidently feel as if those who did not vote for him should be punished, attacked and belittled.

On second thought Tom, I withdraw from the discussion. I'm not in the mood to deal with blind partisanship today.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

off topic. I am taking my wife's admonition that Obama is a very smart man and he will be able to manage his people well. So I am still feeling hopey. But changey? Not so much. (thanks for that, Frank)
The world's universities, think tanks, foundations and corporations are loaded with brilliant deep-thinkers and people of action who haven't served in previous administrations. I was thinking maybe we could give some of them a turn. Or as Inigo Montoya might have said, "Change. You keep using that word but I don't think it means what you think it means."

The substance is that conservative dogma doesn't work. States with the low tax rates advocated by conservatives have crappy educational and healthcare systems, and the advocacy of enforced ignorance about sex leads to high rates of disease and pregnancy.

I chose the states I chose not to punish them for voting for McCain, but to make it clear that I wasn't cherry-picking states to make a statistical point. I also did the numbers for the segment of the Republican base that I find most abhorrent, the social (as oppsed to libertarian) conservatives Glen Beck represents. That depiction of conservatives would be more heavily southern, cutting out North and South Dakota, Montana, and Alaska (which would go independent if the US balkanized) and adding North Carolina, Louisiana, and Florida. In that case, the disconnect between Mr. Beck's idealization of conservatism and the on-the-ground reality was more pronounced. Again, I decided against using those numbers in favor of what I believe to be a more objective standard,

This has nothing to do with punishing or attacking states for not supporting Obama. That is entirely not the point.

This post is an attack on conservative delusion, not any particular state or states. Conservatives like Beck believe that problems will go away if the government just stops dealing with them and gets down to the important business of enforcing religion and cutting taxes. This doesn't need to be a theoretical argument. There are places where that has been tried. Those places are, as a matter of statistical fact, more mired in problems than places where liberalism flourishes.

The opposing, substantial argument that you could have made would be based on outcomes of great concern to conservatives. Abortion rates, for example, are higher in liberal states than conservative. If abortion is the most important thing in the world to you, that's meaningful success and reason to build a wall around, say, Massachusetts. You could have argued that sort of substance, rather than claiming that I'm corrupted by vicious hatred of conservatives that I don't, in reality, feel.

And happy Thanksgiving to you, too, ya big lug, ya.

"This post is an attack on conservative delusion"

Interesting thought considering it was based on a liberal delusion (that Beck was advocating secession) in the first place.

Oh, happy Thanksgiving you, you mother happy Thankgiving.


You too Tom. Be safe.

"The substance is that conservative dogma doesn't work. States with the low tax rates advocated by conservatives have crappy educational and healthcare systems, and the advocacy of enforced ignorance about sex leads to high rates of disease and pregnancy. "

Interesting, because in the social utopias where higher taxes are tried, the economies are failing and the state governments are running huge deficits; i.e. Michigan.

Another point, the higher pregnancies are not just a result of the state enforcing "ignorance about sex", it's also the attitude about what to do with a surprise pregnancy. Red states are more likely to promote abstinence, but also more likely to be unruffled by an unwanted pregnancy, while blue states are more likely to teach safe sex and promote abortion with unwanted pregnancies. This leads to higher teen pregnancy stats in the south because people there are more likely to deal with a surprise pregnancy by getting married and starting a family, while in the blue states they are more likely to abort the baby.

Read all about this interesting paradox in Margaret Talbot's article in the New Yorker. It's quite a fascinating read.

The comments to this entry are closed.